By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Not everyone should be doing software development work, accounting, or other forms of office work. Here’s another option. This is a particularly good show for parents and grandparents.
As many of you know I like to spend
time with individuals who are experts in
things that I may not be quite as expert
at because as much as I know I don’t
know everything. And I’ve got an
interesting guest tonight Terry Iverson
the book is called finding America’s
greatest champion I’m just gonna hold
that up there for a second and this is
gonna be a topic that I’ve been
interested in for a while I’m not going
to go into the reasons for it but pay
attention to this one especially if
you’ve got kids or grandkids I think
this is one that’ll make a lot of sense
for you Terry welcome to the show great
to have you on board hi Jeff it’s great
to be on your show thanks for having me
my pleasure could you introduce yourself
to everyone give them a sense of what’s
your background his line okay I grew up
in initially in Chicago and moved to
Florida where I spent most of my youth
and my family has a manufacturing
background since the 1920s and after
bouncing around with different things I
thought I wanted to do one of which
engineering school I decided to join the
family business and machine tool
distribution and thus join the family
business I have a hunch that there’s
more to that career history
Oh much more I started in 1980 and it’s
been 40 years now I’m on my fortieth
year we sell machine tools and we also
rebuild machine tools and I’ve been very
fascinated and fortunate to call on some
of the most exciting manufacturing
installations in the country now we’re
recording this in June 2020 and we’re at
a time where 40 million people are out
of work and there’s a whole crew of
students that are coming into the
workforce and although the jobs report
is issued today was better than expected
with plus two and a half million rather
than all the down numbers that we’ve
been saying for months
you’re in a field that have worked in a
field that isn’t exactly seen has been
one of those glamour fields and that
smile just says it all so I’m wondering
with manufacturing being and by the way
folks these subtitles of the book is
building prosperity from manufacturing
mentoring and the awesome responsibility
of parenting
I can’t wait to pull all this together
you know what’s the message that you’re
carrying to people what’s important for
people why should they spend pay
attention to manufacturing careers at
this stage well manufacturing is in our
country’s DNA manufacturing has been a
big part of our middle class and and has
fueled our middle class for decades
since going way back but manufacturing
is important and what people don’t
understand is they have a misperception
of what it actually is what the reality
is it’s very technologically savvy it’s
very computerized it’s becoming more and
more automated and the best the best
news is the paying careers are very well
I think really now when you say it’s
computerized I know people are not doing
software development when they’re
working in manufacturing so that part of
the glamor doesn’t exist but are they
the guys and t-shirts and getting dirty
all day like I think that’s the image
than most people have of what it’s like
to work in manufacturing and thus when
they look at their kids they were not
not for that well they’re very JEP
they’re very exciting careers and when I
talk about computerization there’s
programming on the machine and on the
shop floor and there’s also programming
in the CAD office and and I’m computer
so it’s it’s the best of both worlds so
they’re using technology as part of the
work like what you said use the CAD
office and a computer and computer-aided
design
correct just making sure so
using the technology and how are they
using that technology I’m curious well
it used to be back in the day when I
first started you know there weren’t as
many computerized machines which is a
terminology called CNC job there was a
lot of manual machines and a lot of the
the skill was in the actual operator and
so you know every machine had a
different operator with a different
skill level and now with computerization
you can program the Machine and you can
let the Machine do you know the heavy
lifting so to speak as far as the
process and it’s it’s made it a lot
cleaner environment it’s made it a lot
more professional and it’s it’s exciting
and challenging positions thus what does
the person tend to do day to day as part
of their work using these machines well
there’s so many different positions that
in careers that are in manufacturing
some are inspection related some are
loading the machines operating the
machines some are programming and
setting up the machines once again some
you’re in the CAD office doing the the
print work and the cam work as far as
generating code for the machines but you
know there’s a lot of different
different careers and a lot of different
spots to fill but there’s a big void in
the skills that we’re talking about not
because people make a conscious decision
it’s because people just don’t know they
even exist or that they can be paid well
to be in those in those careers I’m
gonna say this in a flipped kind of way
you said it’s part of America’s DNA I
think most people tend to think of as
being in China’s DNA and not an America
thing anymore and I suspect there will
be a move toward bringing back jobs so
the u.s. although as I talked to some
people I also hear that there’s there’s
a move to removing some of those China
jobs to other low-cost areas rather than
the US but that’s a different
conversation there’s always going to be
a need for manufacturing jobs in the
u.s. some
not gonna get outsourced at all yeah I
think to your point I think one thing
that we’ve learned through this pandemic
is that you know there’s certain things
that you really can’t rely on other
economies to fulfill in within our own
country you know we got kind of cut
short on some of the protective PPE
equipment during this and some of the
the drugs that we need for this pandemic
those things you know we should have had
better access within our own borders and
it was interesting and folks if you’re
watching this two years from now I know
this is ancient history but you’ll get
the point it would seem as though a lot
of nation states have regulations that
basically allow them to interrupt the
supply chain and say mine the first mine
I know you bought it it’s your equipment
but it’s mine
you can’t export it and that seems to be
what had happened with China left right
mister so you mentioned a number of
different types of jobs and if we were
looking at like a hierarchy because I
think most people tend to think in terms
of hierarchies for the levels of jobs
where there are relatively general
positions like I’ll use technology for
example there is a developer or an
administrator systems administrator and
then there’s a intermediate and a senior
and then you could person becomes a
manager a director a VP if there’s that
kind of a hierarchy of progression
within the roles I know they have no
clue about in manufacturing
how does it work there you know when
people join a manufacturing firm of some
sort even think you know use your firm
as an example or any other organization
for that matter what sort of hierarchy
exists with some of those categories
that you mentioned
well in manufacturing one of the things
that’s a current model is there’s a lot
of internships where people and
companies will bring in many times young
people for an internship maybe during
their education and they’ll you know do
some of the lower of responsibility
tasks within the organization and say
for example well yeah I’m sorry wasn’t
you know one of the things like in in a
CAD office you may be working on a CAD
system and just doing some basic print
modifications or drawing out on the shop
floor you know you may be you know
preparing bar stock or possibly you know
changing inserts and I on a particular
job or setup you might be you know you
might even be doing some you know
logistics or cleaning or sometimes
ordering material you can that’s a
pretty easy task to get started but the
more skill level you have in
manufacturing like many other
professions the more valuable you become
and your pay is is compensation is
accordingly adjusted up as your skill
level goes as well that’s cool so when
people break into the field of these
working jobs like in every other
profession they’re not paid dramatically
well what kind of entry-level salaries
exist and what sort of salary
progression exists within manufacturing
great question it’s very common for
young people you know they may come in
just over minimum wage when they know
nothing but what you’ll find in
manufacturing is your progression is way
more accelerated as you gain skills than
other professions one of the things I
talk about in a research quite a bit
Jeff is that in manufacturing the
average wage with benefits is around
$82,000 now when you say average wage
you gotta remember you have beginners
and then you have forty year you know
tenured people so when you take that all
into account you know an average wage
with benefits of 82,000 is
very good bang yes it is especially
given the fact that these are people who
have not had to spend however many
hundred thousand dollars a year on a
college education and they haven’t had
all that student loan that hanging over
their heads all these years that
basically are going you know their
higher paying salary so much of it is
going off to pay off debt yeah I mean
good question one of the things I point
out in the book is I I do a 12 year
model and a four year five year college
degree graduate and a twelve year model
of a two year vocational type degree
graduate and I take the cost of the
education and in the thought of paying
it back in the salary when you come out
and when it at the end of 12 years the
college graduate four or five year
college graduate because of the cost
they’re at about I believe a negative
120 thousand cash negative and the other
2-year vocational degree individual paid
back paying back the education cost is
90 thousand cash positive here’s a
quarter million dollar difference almost
we were jobs located well–there’s
manufacturing hubs all throughout the
country so you know there’s a lot of
people drive by industrial parks every
day all day within their communities
they just don’t know what’s inside the
four walls and thus those buildings
aren’t just simply tech hubs or office
places may that may involve
manufacturing positions as well they do
they do and the bulk of manufacturing in
our country are small companies small
businesses they may have between five
and maybe 50 people there is a lot of
manufacturing and large organizations
the Boeing’s of the world and other
companies that are very large
caterpillar but that being said there’s
a lot of job shops and there’s a lot of
smaller companies that make products for
the bigger companies and so there’s a
lot more opportunities than just the big
corporations
and it’s interesting from my time in a
search you know because I was a
headhunter for many years like 40 and I
was part of a network of recruiting
firms that were kind of subdivided into
areas of expertise and my background was
primarily IT record and there was
another group that I spent a little time
with I even spoke to the group on one
occasion that was focused in on
manufacturer and the bulk of the work
ruse in this network worth hearing but
the ones that were making the money were
the manufacturer very – and it was
interesting to me because I spent some
time talking with the folks in that
field and I said there’s a lot of
redundancy lumber tendency there’s just
a lot of people who were in IT
recruiting and there are a lot of IT
professionals but no-one’s going into
manufacturing so the clearly labor
shortages and those folks if you’re not
happy in your job if you’re not being
treated well if you think you’re
underpaid there’s usually someone down
the block or in a place in the country
where you want to live that might be
interested in hiring is there are labor
shortages I think in the book what was
the age that you said the average
manufacturing worker is oh it’s well
into Jeff it’s well into the 50s I mean
that’s one of the the biggest misnomers
about manufacturing besides what people
perceive it to be is that we have people
my age that are you know near the end of
their careers they’ve been in at 40 plus
years and we want to pass on our tribal
knowledge to the next generation and so
there’s the baby boomer generation is
now graduating – towards retirement and
there’s there’s there’s a gap not
there’s a skills gap but there’s an age
gap where there’s a whole generation or
generation and a half or two that was
skipped and so you have the younger
people that are really getting advanced
like almost fast-track to management
because you know they’re leapfrogging
over an entire generation that isn’t
there
this thing and I’m gonna hit a subject
here and deal with a stereotype the
stereotype side tends to be that
manufacturing is a bunch of old white
guys
well there’s there some truth to that
and so and so consequently you know
there’s there’s not enough women in our
industry there’s a huge opportunity for
them to be honest there’s not enough
people of color in our industry and
there’s a huge opportunity for them as
well and so I challenged the
manufacturing sector to be a little bit
you know proactive and think differently
and tried you know to appeal to it to a
different audience than what we’ve tried
in the past fabulous what kind of
training do people get when they move
into the field you know what’s it like
during that first I how long does the
training last oh wow the training the
training is a lifelong lessons I’m still
learning and being trained in many
facets yeah but you’re on your way out
you don’t count anymore I don’t count
anymore I don’t
but now as far as training you know
there’s there’s all sorts of online
training which is I’m really excited to
say SME that has what they call tooling
University
what was the name of that again totally
new University is owned by Society of
manufacturing engineering and they’ve
done a really they acquired tooling
University and there’s a lot of really
cool classes on there yeah the other
thing that I try to talk about Jeff is
that there’s a young man named John
Saunders that has a YouTube channel
called NYC CNC and he learned he taught
himself how to be a manufacturer and he
puts out YouTube videos to help train
people just like he learned wow that’s
fabulous
could you state the name of that YouTube
channel again it’s NYC C&C is the is the
YouTube channel and there’s a lot of
information you know he taught himself
to be a manufacturer and he’s
interviewed in the book
and then there’s also Titan Gilroy and
Titan Titan C&C he has a series of
classes online that you can learn about
manufacturing and a lot of this some of
us is chart you know on a charge basis
and some of this is free fabulous now I
know you you sort of helped start
champion now could you tell people about
champion now what his mission is and
what it sets out to accomplish place
well I got so involved probably 25 years
ago into technical education with high
schools and community colleges and you
know I had a lot of boards I sat on with
you know education foundations both
locally and nationally and so whenever
having said that I just didn’t feel that
talking to one high school or Community
College student or a class at a time was
adequate so I was on my way to
Washington DC on a board that I that I
sat on and and I wanted to change
perceptions I wanted to change
manufacturing perceptions well that’s an
acronym champion Alice is change how
American manufacturing is perceived in
our nation and so it’s it’s kind of a
cool acronym manufacturing doesn’t have
a lot of real you know high polished you
know icons or perceptions or images so
the name fits as well and the now is the
call to action but the main focus and
mission is to really change perceptions
and let people know that manufacturing
is a cool place to be and and that you
know they can make a lot of money the
one thing I haven’t said that I should
say is on the NAMM website then the
National Association of Manufacturers
the manufacturing Institute says that
there’s around six hundred thousand
manufacturing skilled positions that go
unfilled every year and then the next
ten years there’s probably two and a
half million positions that will go
unfilled in our industry in this country
Wow
unless there’s a huge opportunity that
is ignored weirdoes we’re working
businesses where do nonprofits find that
next generation of people like if
someone’s watching this video and
decides hey I want to get into
manufacturing like what do they do but
what’s the next step for them well it
depends on and where they’re coming from
and what age bracket they’re in but
there’s a lot of different ways I write
about Project Lead the Way
I interviewed Vince Bertram who’s the
president Project Lead the Way is
project-based learning that’s going into
the high schools all around the country
so you can go to their website and you
can see what high schools are in your
area that have Project Lead the Way
there’s a lot of community colleges and
there’s a lot of associations that have
technical CTE is the actual name careers
and technical education so you can go to
the CTE site and find out you know what
community colleges have manufacturing
classes and there’s so there’s a number
of ways you can learn about it but one
of the big things that I have to point
out is there’s an organization called
manufacturing day and so if you’re a
parent or if you’re a student or even
somebody that’s older and you want to
learn more every October early October
manufacturers all over the country open
up their doors and invite people in to
see what today’s manufacturing looks
like and it’s been going on for about
six seven years and initially started
with the FMA which is the fabricators
and manufacturers association but now
named conducts it in administrates it
was fabricated fabricating there’s
there’s metal cutting and there’s
fabricating and the nurse additive
manufacturing metal cutting is actually
taking metal away from a piece of bar
stock fabricating is bending a piece of
sheet metal and then additive
manufacturing is 3d printing so in a
general scope
definition of things those are three of
the major ways you can you can actually
manufacture something fabulous so let me
in that and that answer you’ve been
talking about for younger individuals
let’s say someone’s in their thirties
they’ve been a welder for example and
they realized this isn’t for me maybe
manufacturing is it what do they do well
my advice first of all welders do very
well they get paid very well so if they
decide the welding is not for them it’s
not for the pay it’s probably because
it’s not challenging maybe or it’s too
redundant for them but with that skill
set that skill set and that attention to
detail in mechanical aptitude can can be
parlayed into other different
manufacturing very easily so you know
whether it be going and looking for a
job board or going to Community College
there’s all sorts of ways that someone
that’s in welding that can conduct a
back into manufacturing very easily in
my opinion then we’ve been talking about
the career of manufacturing but the
subtitle of your book talks about
mentoring and the awesome
responsibilities of parenting now you
give the most words the parenting so I’m
gonna go there next what is that
responsibility in parenting that you’re
trying to get across well I’m I’m glad
so it’s really important to me Jeff so
I’m really glad you asked about that as
well
I think parenting is the most precious
responsibility on earth and those of us
that are parents we have a tough job to
do and and an important job to do but
you know life goes in a lot of different
directions at full speed and so you have
two parents working and they’re both
trying to fit in there their job and you
know parents at the same time sometimes
you have single parents whether it be a
mom or a dad and so they have challenges
as well but then you also have the guilt
of raising a child and knowing that
you’re not spending the time you want to
spend with them because you have to you
know you have to earn
income to pay for the family so too many
times what I’ve seen and I used to coach
travel soccer so I interacted with a lot
of parents and a lot of young people for
two or three decades and so what I would
see is parents would make decisions that
instead of holding their child
accountable they would try to be their
child’s best friend Jeff I was raised
old school and I parented old school and
I believe in that and you know child
children need to learn lessons and
become better citizens and better adults
as a result of those lessons
so rather than parenting out of guilt
you know do the difficult you know task
of making the decisions of how to you
know hold your child accountable both
good and bad so that they learn and they
become the best that they can be it’s
funny – my son is 19 as we’re recording
this and he graduated high school he
said I’m not going to college now and it
was interesting to see what he had
learned from me just by watching and one
of the things he learned was show up
early for work work a little late it’s
putting the best effort I noticed this
just as he would talk about his job and
some of the things that went on there
like if he was supposed to be there at
8:30 he was there at 7:45 you know
breakfast in hand keying into the
building to be able to get in if he was
supposed to leave that 6:30 he was
generally leaving at 7:00 and it’s sweet
stuff that he picked up for me I feel
guilty about I’ve something to do a
workaholic at 19 but it’s the right
attitude and I know so much of the
culture that we have even with phrases
like take it easy that we habitually say
is designed to curtail Drive rather than
encourage drive the success
so I understand that message about I
don’t want to call it old-school per se
because the old-school also had involved
with it that I know you’re not talking
about that’s the first thing that came
to my mind of course was the old-school
1950s oh yeah
take out the belt uh and not talking
about that yeah I know I know and then
the part is mentoring that’s the other
part of your title it is he’s doing the
mentoring who’s receiving the mentor
well the the example that I made with
single parents I was raised by my mom
single parent in down in Florida and I
was very blessed I was very blessed that
I had coaches I had teachers I had
family friends you know they looked out
for me and mentored me and as I grew and
got into the working world
I had co-workers and supervisors that
mentored me I went into a family
business so I was very fortunate that my
dad and my two uncles also mentored me
so with the world and with the different
challenges that young people have and
with the challenges parents have that I
just alluded to
you know mentoring is a huge huge need
to supplement you know maybe what
parents you know can’t fill in all the
blanks so I think those of us that you
know are you know in our latter years I
think all of us acknowledge that we’re
very fortunate to have been mentored by
Peart some very special people I agree
and and one of the things I’ve kind of
keyed in on for myself is the notion of
what an elder is supposed to be like in
our culture and I know culturally older
people are pushed out now we don’t
listen to them they’ll you know we don’t
pay attention to them they think old
school and there’s a lot of wisdom folks
that you’re missing out on if you don’t
ask the questions of people who were
looking there ahead of you
it doesn’t mean you always have to take
their advice but it’s useful to listen
to it because the places you’re getting
the advice from may not know any more
than you do but they say it’s in a
convincing way well I think one other
point Jeff I’d like to point out is this
in the workforce there’s a there’s a
concept called reverse mentoring and
that is you know those of us that have
been around around that we have a lot of
the knowledge tribal knowledge that we
want to pass on and let’s let’s just say
for example in manufacturing but we
don’t know the technology always like we
should and here we have this next
generation they’ve forgotten more than
that we’ll ever know about technology so
there’s an opportunity for the the elder
to mentor the young person but also a
great opportunity the young person to
reverse mentor the elder so it’s a it’s
a win-win for everybody and I know in a
lot of a lot of instances with people
that I coach they talk with me about the
institutional mentor that they have and
how they spend a lot of time mentoring
that person it’s really interesting to
hear that part of it but in terms of
careers and manufacturing this is a
really sweet book and really like it
really lays out a good case how can
people find out more about America’s
greatest champion building prosperity
through manufacturing mentoring and the
awesome responsibilities of parenting
how can they find out more well the most
information that’s out there is on
champion now you know champion with an
end at the end and then and again
now.org
and I have a whole litany of information
about the book about different articles
I’ve written different interviews it is
also available on Amazon it’s also an
audible on an audible book and it’s also
an e-book on those different platforms
so and you know the ones on champion now
I can you know I have a hardcover that’s
only available through champion
cool and folks I’ll have a link to the
two champion now org to the page on
Amazon where it’s sold I am told that is
less expensive on champion now org than
on Amazon I I have the link that I’m
podcast and your podcast especially that
they can save 30% on by going to a
certain link yes and I’ll have that link
in the show notes folks Terry thank you
this has been really interesting Jeff
this has been awesome and I appreciate
you including me
and I’m honored and privileged and very
excited to be on your on your show thank
you
and folks I’ll be back soon with more
I’m Jeff Alton the big game hunter visit
my web site the big game hunter dot yes
I’ve got thousands of posts that’ll help
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ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter is a coach who worked as a recruiter for what seems like one hundred years. His work involves career coaching, all as well as executive job search coaching, job coaching and interview coaching. He is the host of “No BS Job Search Advice Radio,” the #1 podcast in iTunes for job search with more than 1800 episodes and “The No BS Coaching Advice Podcast” and is a former member of The Forbes Coaches Council. “No BS JobSearch Advice Radio” was named a Top 10 podcast for job search. JobSearchTV.com is also a Top 10 YouTube channel for job search.
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